Licio Gelli, Italian Financier and Cabal Leader, Dies at 96

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Licio Gelli in front of his home in Tuscany. He personified Italians’ widely held mistrust of government narratives. Credit Giulio Broglio/Associated Press

Licio Gelli, a buccaneering Italian financier and self-professed fascist who was implicated in terrorist crimes, scandals and a secret society that, with him as its grandmaster, was accused of plotting a right-wing coup, died on Tuesday at his villa in Arezzo, Italy. He was 96.

His death was reported by the nation’s news media, and his funeral on Thursday, attended mostly by family and friends, was covered by Italian television.

Mr. Gelli never wavered in his convictions. In a 2008 television interview, he declared, “I was born under fascism, I studied with fascism, I fought for fascism, I am a fascist and I will die a fascist.”

His near-mythic ignominy evoked popular fictional conspiracy tales, like Dan Brown’s novel “The Da Vinci Code” and the movie “The Godfather Part III,” and he personified what Italians encapsulate as “dietrologia” — the reflexive, widely held suspicion that behind any official government narrative lurks a more sinister explanation.

But if Mr. Gelli was a scoundrel to many Italians, to others he held out the promise of stability in turbulent times, when the Communist Party was advancing at the polls and the economy was declining.

He exerted much of his influence as leader of a cabalistic breakaway Masonic lodge, known as Propaganda Due, or P2, which the Freemasons had officially dissolved. The authorities said hundreds of government, business and military leaders had joined the lodge, defying Italy’s ban on secret societies.

Investigators linked the group to plots to destabilize the Italian state, to blame leftists for unrest, and to foment a right-wing coup during the “years of lead,” when Italy was besieged by terrorist attacks.

The group was suspected of trying to discredit Communists by thwarting the rescue of former Prime Minister Aldo Moro, who was kidnapped and murdered in 1978 by leftist Red Brigades guerrillas. P2 was believed to have had a hand in the horrific bombing of a Bologna train station in 1980 that left 85 dead and that was generally attributed to another neo-fascist group.

And it was investigated in 1982 in the death of Roberto Calvi, a lodge member who was called “God’s banker” because of his financial ties to the Vatican’s bank. Mr. Calvi’s body was found hanging from Blackfriars Bridge in London — a suicide, the authorities ruled.

Mr. Gelli was convicted of bank fraud and obstruction of justice. He mysteriously escaped from prison or house arrest twice and served the remainder of his term in his villa, a 30-room redoubt near a 15th-century church in the Tuscan hills.

There he was found to have a gold thumb when nearly $2 million in bullion was discovered in 1998 in the terrace garden, hidden in terra cotta flower pots beneath begonias and geraniums.

In “God’s Banker,” his 1983 biography of Mr. Calvi, Rupert Cornwell wrote, “Italy, it must be recorded with honesty, albeit bemusement, has produced few more remarkable individuals this century than Licio Gelli.”

Mr. Gelli (pronounced jelly) was born on April 21, 1919, in Pistoia, north of Florence, in Tuscany. He married the former Wanda Vannaci. She died in 1993, and their three children, Raffaello, Maria Rosa and Maurizio, survive him, as does his second wife, the former Gabriella Vasile. (Another daughter died in an automobile accident.)

Mr. Gelli joined Benito Mussolini’s fascist Blackshirts in fighting for Generalissimo Francisco Franco in Spain’s Civil War in the 1930s. He served as an Italian liaison to Nazi Germany during World War II, then switched sides to support Communist partisans in his native Pistoia Province.

After the war, he fled to Argentina, where he became a confidant of the dictator Juan Perón. Returning to Italy, he became successful as a financier and self-made industrialist manufacturing mattresses.

Mr. Gelli emerged into the public eye in 1981 as Italian investigators were focusing on Mr. Calvi, who had presided over the collapse of Banco Ambrosiano, Italy’s largest private bank, and on Michele Sindona, another banker who had been accused in the failure of the Franklin National Bank in the United States. (Mr. Sindona was later convicted of murder and was himself murdered, by poisoning, in prison.)

Searching for the names of businessmen who had illegally exported cash, the investigators found instead — in a leather suitcase in Mr. Gelli’s mattress factory — evidence of what amounted to a right-wing shadow government composed of 962 power brokers led by Mr. Gelli. The group, they said, sought to “exert anonymous and surreptitious control” of the country.

The roster included Mr. Calvi and Mr. Sindona, whom the authorities described as puppets of Mr. Gelli, enlisted to help impose what the group called a “Plan for Democratic Rebirth.”

When so many government ministers and other officials were revealed to be members of the lodge, Prime Minister Arnaldo Forlani’s government fell. His successor declared that Italy was facing a “moral emergency.”

Mr. Gelli was arrested in Geneva in 1982 on charges of passport fraud. The authorities said he had gone there to withdraw millions of dollars from his Swiss accounts.

A year later, just as he was about to be extradited to Italy to face charges involving the Bologna bombing, the bank failure and financing right-wing terrorism, he escaped from a Swiss prison hospital with a guard’s help and fled to South America. He returned to Switzerland in 1987 and was extradited to Italy under extraordinary security.

Mr. Gelli was absolved of any association with the Bologna bombing but sentenced to five years in prison for obstructing the investigation and 18 and a half years for his role in the Banco Ambrosiano fraud. (His Swiss accounts had been linked to more than $1 billion that the bank was missing.) He later received a 17-year sentence on obstruction charges in a political conspiracy case involving 15 other P2 members.

Mr. Gelli was a “man of Neronic wealth and ways,” as the writer Nick Tosches described him in “Power on Earth,” his 1986 biography of Mr. Sindona. But Mr. Gelli’s lawyer, Raphael Giorgetti, suggested on Thursday that his client had merely been a “scapegoat” for the government’s own failings.

Most of the lodge members escaped punishment. Archbishop Paul Marcinkus, who was president of the Vatican’s bank, was indicted as an accessory in the Banco Ambrosiano collapse. Citing diplomatic immunity, the Vatican refused to comply with an Italian arrest warrant for the archbishop, but it paid more than $200 million to Banco Ambrosiano’s creditors.

Mr. Gelli, placed under house arrest because of ill health, slipped away again in 1998. He was arrested four months later in Cannes, France, and because of his physical condition was allowed to resume his confinement at his villa in Arezzo. He survived there for another 17 years, completing his sentence in the meantime.


Rumor Mill News Reading Room Archive

Princess Di's Priest Breaks 3 Year Silence....

Posted By: Rixon
Date: Saturday, 16-Dec-2000 16:33:49

Princess Diana's Priest Breaks
Silence - Says Marriage Was
On The Way

From Executive Intelligence Review

Rev. Frank Gelli, who in 1997 was parish priest of St Mary Abbots Church, next door to Princess Diana's Kensington Palace, decided to break his three-year silence about their conversations, prompted by the appearance of "Shadows of a Princess", by her former pesonal secretary, P.D. Jephson, according to Germany's largest daily, Bildzetung.

"It is time to tell the truth. This is what Diana would have wished," he said.

Gelli said that he met with Diana two months before her death. He related: "I lived in Turkey for two years. She asked me how Muslims treat their wives. Diana seemed deeply impressed by the respect shown to her by Dodi (Fayed). She was so happy and in love. She was gladly looking to the future, and told me how much Dodi loved her two sons, how much the children liked to spend their time with him."

"When I saw her for the last time, that was before her vacation in France, she asked me, whether I could preside over the ceremony at her wedding. She wanted a Christian blessing for her relation to the Muslim Dodi".

Gelli said that the last time he spoke with her, she had phoned him from her yacht off the Cote d'Azure, and she said she had good news for him which she wanted to tell him when she returned to Kensington Palace. "I wholeheartedly believe had the accident not occurred, the two would long ago have been married to each other."

Bildzeitung adds:

"The consequences of the priest's confession could be enormous. For none of the court reporters believed that the royal family could possibly approve of Lady Di's marraige to a Muslim. Yes, there are quite a few who even see therein a motive for the couple's sudden death - that it wasn't an accident, but murder."

According to Bildseitung, Dodi's father, Mohammed Al Fayed, has been encouraged by the priest's revelations to continue his search for evidence that they were murdered.

emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 10:23 AM
Original message
CIA urged to release Nazi records


Nazi soldier Klaus Barbie worked for Western intelligence after the war

The CIA has been urged to release documents about Nazi war criminals hired by US intelligence officials during the Cold War era.

The call comes from members of Congress who drew up the 1998 public disclosure law, which requires declassification of all documents about the Holocaust.

They say the CIA is withholding details of people it recruited after World War II for their expertise.

Released documents show links between US intelligence and Nazi war criminals.

MAYBE too embarrasing for all those members of the GELLI family????
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
1. Could it be that OP Paperclip Leads to Condor Leads to . . .?

Plan Colombia leads to whatever they're calling the Venezuela operation?

Of course they're not releasing all the files! This is an ongoing operation. To pretend otherwise is really just for public consumption.

"It has been 50 years and there is really no reason to keep this information secret at this point," he said. "We have to bring closure to this."

A CIA spokesman, speaking on condition of anonymity, acknowledged the agency was withholding some information, AP said.

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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Members of the Gelli family in the UK have been sailing too close

to the wind for a long long time. Esoecially in their involvement in "Provos" terrorism.

The roots of this may come out first in the UK.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Found this - not a bad translation from German

An unbreakable mold of "Left" (or Arab, or IRA, or ETA, or Venezuelan, etc.) terrorist provocation-"Right" reaction. Same players, same ideas. Works well every time. Same as it ever was.


Review: Strategy of the tension, P2, Gladio and Berlusconi

Stimulated anarchistische groups from police and secret service agents in the strategy originally conceived by the CIA not only link and to murder and terror. Police agents, usually fascists, accomplished also even innumerable terrorist attacks, for which Anarchisten and autonomous ones were then pursued and locked up often for many years innocently. Networks such as P2 and Gladio were responsible in Italy.
The network P2 (propaganda Due) was created 1969 by the fascist Licio Gelli. Gelli was active as already with the "black shirts" Mussolinis. Later he became liaison officer of the Nazis and SS Obersturmfuehrer. In the P2 were approximately 2500 prominent persons of the Italian society. Politicians, Geheimdienstler, were fascist, Mafiosis, Wirtschftsvertreter, church authorities, journalist, policeman etc.. The Mafiosi Berlusconi had at that time the membership number 1816. A goal of the organization, so the result of the investigations is the revolution of the constitutional order by one "colpo bianco", a white coup d'etat. The code for these plans was called "plan to the democratic Wiedererneuerung". "Gelli called the P2 Freimaurer freimaurer-Loge, although the goals of this criminal combination did not have to do anything with the Freimaurertum, it was diametrically opposite." (see here )
"already with the first notice of the tension strategists on 12 December 1969 in the May countries landwirtschaftsbank on the Piazza Fontana (hurt 16 dead ones, over 80), which neofaschistische terrorists accomplished, was an agent provocateur at the work, who should steer the traces to the left. The Neofaschist Mario Merlino enlisted as a secret service agent created a anarchistischen circle, for which it
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-02-05 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. Thanks. From Piers Compton's book "The Broken Cross" the P2

Edited on Wed Feb-02-05 09:14 AM by emad
Lodge's inception is dated earlier at 1957/58. Comtpon notes that Licio Gelli masterminded a $200million property heist in the UK and Europe in 1969 that bolstered the P2 Lodge and gave it the funds to wreak terrorist havoc on a previously unprecedented scale.

Much of Poodle's 1998 Good Friday Agreement with the Provisional IRA conceals British security/inteligence plea bargain deals with members of the Gelli family domiciled in the UK. Notable among these is cuban-born Henry Gelli (age 67, living in London, major player in fraud, racketeering, co-ercion and moneylaundering) whose myriad contacts with what is laughably termed "Al-Qaeda" has proven to be a newtork of Asian sex offenders running child vice rackets, the financial proceeds of which were laundered throughout the 1980s and 90s via offshore bank centres such as Dubai and Bahrain. Some of the accounts were run via BCCI. When this was shut down in NYC by Bob Morgethau and in London - from which operations were centred - many account were switched to what became HSBC.

Gelli family members in the UK include property fraudsters linked to the 1986 theft of a massive $$$$$$$$s portfolio that found its way into the hand of Ken Lay and Jeff Skilling. From my sources I understand that Lay then raised morgages and bank loan guarantees on these assets to fund his oil pipeline pipedreams in the Caspian Sea area. When these went belly up the righful owners of the property portfolio sued and got their assets back. It took another 2 years before the accounting cover-up at Enron became so unmanageable that the behemoth collapsed.

See also posts#3 & #8 at: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-02-05 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. The P2/Gelli link to US Intel Goes Back to CIC , OSS and OPC.

My impression is that the Angletons ran the Vatican ratlines through CIC office in Rome, meanwhile Weisner flew his Mustang around Austria, coordinating the evacuation of German Paperclip beneficiaries selected by Gehlen. Future DCI Helms was there with Weisner. Anyone know what Bill Casey was up to in '45-46?

Also, what provided ballast to all those oil drums full of OKW files that Gehlen sank to the bottom of the Alpine lake? What was the split of the bullion? Kinda hard to keep these things secret in a hothouse environment like Rome. Being party to that sort of information would provide a lifetime of protection for Neo-Fascists who wanted to make a fresh start of things after the war.

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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Helms: Richard McGarrach Helms was listed in the 1981 edition

of the MEED Middle East Financial Directory as a minority shareholder and director of the parent company of BCCI, the International Credit and Investment Corporation (ICIC) registered in the Cayman Islands and in the Dutch Antilles. Fellow directors/shareholders included James R Bath and Robert Maxwell (RIP).

The current BCCI class action in London which sees 20,000 bank creditors suing the Bank of England for misfeasance aims to show that Thatcher took political decision to turn a blind eye to mass-scale corruption at BCCI to save her own skin re personal involvement in Banco Ambrosiano collapse/corruption probes, to protect the US interests of Ronald Reagan and George Bush Sr and to continue the cold war collusion of whitewashing World War II war crime secrets that could end the political dynasties of the west while bankrupting the Catholic Church into total oblivion.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. McGarrah was his middle name, Richard McGarrah Helms. It was from

his maternal side. Gates McGarrah was his maternal grandfather. Like Prescott Bush, Gates McGarrah was intimately involved in trade and banking with the Third Reich.

When the world's central banks (including The Federal Reserve) created the Bank for International Settlements/BIS in 1930 Gates McGarrah was its first President.

BIS was the realized vision of Hjalmar Schacht- who later became Nazi Minister of Economics.

Richard McGarrah Helms was the champion of US mind control "research".
His niece, Laili Helms, was the US public relations person for The Taliban.

Richard McGarrah Helms was the CIA Director that ran MH CHAOS/Operation CHAOS, the illegal suppression of domestic political dissenters, peace activists, civil rights groups, black nationalists, women's movement, gays, organized labor, SDS-the entire New Left.

I can't understand why this isn't taught as US history, the names and social networks of the criminals in our intelligence community.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I recall, Helms also attended prep school in Germany and returned

during the Nazi pre-war era as a correspondent for one of the US wire services. (The Man Who Kept the Secrets) He was the Judith Miller of his day, filtering what Americans learned about Germany.

Of good family and proven talent and loyalty, he was assigned to join Weisner, another Dulles protege, (Thomas) in setting up the post-war New Order.

Angleton had a very similar background to Helms, spending much of his formative years in Italy, where his father was the sales agent for NCR-Olivetti during the Mussolini era. James Jesus and his father, James Hugh Angleton, ran the OSS X-2 (CI) liason with the Vatican Secretary of State office, which was the primary OSS back-channel to Berlin. Allen Dulles' office in Bern was the other. From 1923-1941, Allen and John Foster were Germany's primary lawyers at the Wall Street firm of Sullivan & Cromwell, which also represented Standard Oil-General Motors, which continued to do business in Nazi Germany even after war was declared.

So, we find the founding fathers and postwar chiefs of the Agency with the deepest sort of connections with Fascism going back to its beginnings. All this has been "forgotten" and forgiven because of the Cold War.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #18
29. Helms worked for UPI-as a young reporter he had a world exclusive

interview with Adolph Hitler in 1936. Later, as an UPI executive, Helms was recruited into the OSS by Bill Donovan and began his spook career.

He kissed Allen Dulles ass for awhile but Helms did begin the CIA's involvement in US mind control "research" in 1953-MK ULTRA. Some of this involved former Nazis and/or the use of Nazi "medical experimentation" files captured during WWII.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. It would be interesting to read the Helms-Hitler interview. What quest-

ions weren't asked or followed-up on, I wonder? If someone has that, I'd love to see it.

I recall Dr. Sid Gotlieb was in charge of MK-Ultra. In the 1960s, the chief scientist in charge of the notorious LSD-brainwashing experiments was Ewing Cameron, the former head of the Canadian national psychiatric association. That may have been only a small piece of a much larger program that Helms oversaw as DCI during the Johnson-Nixon Administrations.

Helms can be thanked for his core role in getting rid of Dick Nixon. There are a lot of grays in the black ops world.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. Thank you! This is great stuff! Please cite source(s). Thank You!

Looks like an extract, or is this yours?
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #17
40. Source: MEED Middle East Financial Directory 1981 and extracts

from Middle East Economic Digest 1980-86.

MEED.com is the online edition of the weekly UK-based business publisher, which was sold to the EMAP publishing co in late 1986.

Neither the Directory or its pre-1999 archives are available online. Hopwever, much material from this is currently in the plaintiffs' bundle in the BCCI UK class action against the Bank of England.

British Libray has one copy of the Directory at its HQ in Euston, North London.

A copy of the 1981 edition cited above was received by the US Library of Congress, the Senate Library and by the archives/records department of the US Justice Department in 1981 - courtesy copies sent by the UK publishers, for which delivery receipts were obtained.

These too are in the plaintiffs' bundle....
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. emad, you blew your cover as a sane person with this.

From your post #3 of 1/26:

"All the trails point to the Stasi's Markus Wolf being an alias used by Andreas Gelli, cousin of P2 Lodge gangster Licio Gelli, currently in the dock awaiting the resumption of the adjourned Calvi murder trial.

"The trail also leads to the Gellis many involvements in shielding and financing Nazi war criminals in South America, some of whom were given new official IDs and promoted into high office. The most interesting of these is "General Pinochet", who it it alleged, was murdered around the time of the Kennedy quarantine of Cuba in 1962, and replaced by one Antonio Gelli, a Spanish/Italian sex offender with an uncanny resemblance to old General P.

"Of further interest are allegations that the Gelli family also includes other politicians of global note: that George Herbert Bush was also murdered after stepping on the Mafia's toes once too often (1964?) and replaced with Adreas Gelli's half brother Frank Gelli.

"And that the current incumbent in the White House is another Gelli lookalike: John (Juan) Gelli, slotted in after Barbara Bush senior killed Junior in a drunken rage in 1967."

Most of your posts have good, highly-detailed information from hard to find (and verify) sources. They appear to be valuable -- almost too valuable. But, then you go and blow it with this stuff.

You're either a loon or a source of disinformation. Please tell us it ain't so, particularly the latter.

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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #19
41. The Gelli stuff WAS reported in the Sunday Times in October 1990

Edited on Fri Feb-04-05 11:04 AM by emad
a few days before the dramatic fall from office of Margaret Thatcher.

Some security/intelligence documents relating to these Gellis are also in the plaintiffs' bundle in the BCCI class aciton in London against the Bank of England.

Other documents relating are in the City of London Police evidence before the Roberto Calvi murder trial prosecutors in Rome. (BBC background report: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3684163.stm ).

These papers were reported by the UK's Guardian as being part of "70 boxes of previously unavailable evidence" which the City of London Police came up with in 2004 after 22 years of absence.....

Other sources of information about the Gelli dynasties are in police evidence that formed the basis of Poodle's ludicrous Good Friday Agreement in 1998 - whereby over 30 members of the Gelli family were let off the hook for crimes ranging from property theft, extortion, racketeering, money laundering, fraud, embezzlement and conspiracy to pervert the course of justice.

Edit: my work colleagues have reminded me that Frank Gelli's real, lawful wedded wife - Emilia Gelli - lives in the UK just west of London and has a lengthy criminal record of moneylaundering, UK mainland terrorism offences attributed to Irish dissidents, and associated offences relating to perverting the course of justice. She has used the alias name of an East European refugee since 1956 and worked as a teacher for the Polish Catholic teaching order The Marian Fathers, who ran a boys' boarding school in Oxfordshire called Divine Mercy College from a listed historical building in Henley called Fawley Court. Their Buckinghamshire-based refugee childrens' home was closed down in 1970 after an awful child sex abuse scandal which was reported a few years later in the UK's Catholic Herald newspaper as well as the Bucks Free Press.

The Marian Fathers received proven money-laundered funds amounting to £1million between 1961 and 1967 from Prince Stanislaw Radziwill - second husband of Jackie Kennedy's sister Caroline Lee Bouvier Canfield - who has used the name of Lee Radziwill since the death of her ex.

He built a church "for his mother" - St Anne's Church - in the Henley grounds of Fawley Court, and is buried there alongside his mama. Other funds of his went into the refurbishment of the Marians' very own Hellfire Club Temple - a folly in the grounds of Fawley Court on the banks of the Thames. The Marians did some religious hocus pocus -under the aegis of Cardinal Rubin - to exorcise the folly, had the ground consecrated and turned the 18th century memorial into a sacred chaple for Maximillan Kolbe - whom JP2 canonised some years ago.

Sanitised link about Marian Fathers/Fawley Court:

Also of note are alleged documents before the Calvi murder trial in Rome showing that Prince Stanislaw Radziwill worked for the Gellis in the 1960s in providing covert fundings to exiled WW2 criminals hiding in South America, and that he was in part responsible for the corruption and fraud that led to the collapse of Banco Ambrosiano in 1982. The paperwork allegedly showing these connections relates to
accounts operated by Cardinal Marcinkus - head of the Vatican's Institute of Religious Works. DU readers might remember the much cited fact that Vice President Bush gave Marcinkus immunity from prosecution over the Ambrosiano collapse and the subsequent investigation into Calvi's "suicide" - and note that the suicide verdict was quashed at the end of 2003/begining of 2004 after new evidence in the UK pointed to Calvi having been murdered.

Radziwill and Marcinkus were joined at the hip and an integral part of the P2 Lodge criminal gang that ran all organised crime in Europe from 1957 to at least October 1990 - the date when Thatcher was booted out of high office and replaced with the Carlyle Group's star performer - former PM John Major.

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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #41
48. Yes, yes, emad, but the following is still B.S. Want to explain, now?

From your post #3 of 1/26:

"All the trails point to the Stasi's Markus Wolf being an alias used by Andreas Gelli, cousin of P2 Lodge gangster Licio Gelli, currently in the dock awaiting the resumption of the adjourned Calvi murder trial.

"The trail also leads to the Gellis many involvements in shielding and financing Nazi war criminals in South America, some of whom were given new official IDs and promoted into high office. The most interesting of these is "General Pinochet", who it it alleged, was murdered around the time of the Kennedy quarantine of Cuba in 1962, and replaced by one Antonio Gelli, a Spanish/Italian sex offender with an uncanny resemblance to old General P.

"Of further interest are allegations that the Gelli family also includes other politicians of global note: that George Herbert Bush was also murdered after stepping on the Mafia's toes once too often (1964?) and replaced with Adreas Gelli's half brother Frank Gelli.

"And that the current incumbent in the White House is another Gelli lookalike: John (Juan) Gelli, slotted in after Barbara Bush senior killed Junior in a drunken rage in 1967."

Look, I can take a joke. Not sure about some of the others around here, though. Nobody else is reading this, I'm sure (except the DHS minder, and maybe that's just mindfuck.) Just admit you're goofing on us (or nod twice if you're just nutz) and this will be forgotten. Scout's honour.
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-05 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. Keep your eyes peeled for the resumption of the Roberto Calvi

Rome murder trial for more news of the Gellis, their extensive infiltration of public life and the lengths they went to to cover up their corruption.

Having seen a number of Gelli family members prosecuted in criminal and civilo courts in the US and UK, I am not surprised how well the security/intelligence services have hidden the paper trail.

Frank Gelli, his UK-based son, grandson and great grandson must be shitting bricks right now, hoping Poodle will carry on the great deception instigated by Thatcher.

As for John Gelli, he too has offspring in the UK who have played a seminal role in grand-scale theft, money laundering, corruption, conspiracy to pervert the course of justice and related terror activities.

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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #4
15. nice find levey...ty

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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
3. The Busheviks will NOT turn in their friedns and sympathizers

Those Old Nazis can rest easy.

They are safe in the keeping of the descendants of Hitler's Money Launderer.
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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-05 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #3
54. they won't come clean with that stuff until this "gov't" falls.

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
5. Nazis were apt pupils of American eugenics


Repealing Godwin's Law

"Evil is real and it must be called by its name and
it must be confronted" - Dick Cheney at Auschwitz

It's been several days now, but I still can't get past the peculiar disgrace of Dick Cheney. The green parka with white fur, and the brown, lace-up hiking boots were inappropriate enough for a solemn ceremony at the world's most notorious symbol of runaway eugenics. But the toque, with the words "Staff 2001" - that's almost too much, even for a conspiracy theorist. Cheney might as well have been cradling Flight 11's "unrecovered" flight recorders in his lap, and sneering into the camera, "What you gonna do about it?"

It's easy to ask, What was he thinking? Harder, is to answer, Was he thinking that? Because without knowing his mind, we can assert with some confidence that Cheney's choices were deliberate. Unlike a thoughtless tourist, the Homeland's acting President would have been conscious of the impression he was making. And if, somehow, he wasn't, he had the fail safe of a staff well-versed in protocol to set him right. (In other words, no need to call Putin the night before and say, "So, what are you wearing to Auschwitz?")

But I'm going to cut myself some slack on this singular morbidity. As I said, it's been just a few days. And after all, it's been 60 years, and we still can't get past the Nazis. None, more so than the CIA.

Saturday's New York Times:

CIA Said to Rebuff Congress on Nazi Files

The Central Intelligence Agency is refusing to provide hundreds of thousands of pages of documents sought by a government working group under a 1998 law that requires full disclosure of classified records related to Nazi war criminals, say Congressional officials from both parties.

Under the law, the CIA has already provided more than 1.2 million pages of documents, the vast majority of them from the archives of its World War II predecessor, the Office of Strategic Services. Many documents have been declassified, and some made public last year showed a closer relationship between the United States government and Nazi war criminals than had previously been understood, including the CIA's recruitment of war criminal suspects or Nazi collaborators.

For nearly three years, the CIA has interpreted the 1998 law narrowly and rebuffed requests for additional records, say Congressional officials and some members of the working group, who also contend that that stance seems to violate the law.

These officials say the agency has sometimes agreed to provide information about former Nazis, but not about the extent of the agency's dealings with them after World War II. In other cases, it has refused to provide information about individuals and their conduct during the war unless the working group can first provide evidence that they were complicit in war crimes.

Former Congresswoman and member of the working group Elizabeth Holtzman contends that "the CIA has defied the law, and in so doing has also trivialized the Holocaust, thumbed its nose at the survivors of the Holocaust and also at Americans who gave their lives in the effort to defeat the Nazis in World War II." Looking at Cheney, maybe there's a pattern emerging.

If the Nazis are truly in the dustbin of history, what are we to make of the fact that, 60 years on, the Agency is still keeping secrets about their post-war recruitment, even violating the law to do so? (And these are just the secrets that we know they're keeping. I would expect that the most privileged secrets have left no paper trail.)

But when we talk about the relationship between the Nazis and American institutions, we must talk about more than Project Paperclip. Because there's more going on here than the virtual co-founding of America's National Security State by thousands of Nazi scientists. Before the CIA existed, before the War, even before Hitler's rise to power, Anglo-American eugenics was informing and inspiring apt pupils in Germany, including the future architects of genocide.

The Carnegie Institute, the Rockefeller Foundation, JP Morgan and Averell Harriman can be counted among the head cheerleaders and principal financiers of the American eugenics movement, which found keen partners in great academies like Harvard and Yale and in numerous state and federal departments. Edwin Black writes in War Against the Weak that "they were all bent on breeding a eugenically superior race, just as agronomists would breed better strains of corn. The plan was to wipe away the reproductive capability of the weak and inferior." Sixty thousand Americans were sterilized in the process, many without their knowledge.

Black adds:

American eugenic crusades proliferated into a worldwide campaign, and in the 1920s came to the attention of Adolf Hitler. Under the Nazis, American eugenic principles were applied without restraint, careening out of control into the Reich's infamous genocide. During the pre-War years, American eugenicists openly supported Germany's program. The Rockefeller Foundation financed the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute and the work of its central racial scientists. Once WWII began, Nazi eugenics turned from mass sterilization and euthanasia to genocidal murder. One of the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute doctors in the program financed by the Rockefeller Foundation was Josef Mengele who continued his research in Auschwitz, making daily eugenic reports on twins. After the world recoiled from Nazi atrocities, the American eugenics movement — its institutions and leading scientists — renamed and regrouped under the banner of an enlightened science called human genetics.

Investigative journalist Jon Rappaport makes a similar point regarding MK-ULTRA and related programs, and draws an even more distressing conclusion, in his 1997 lecture "The CIA, Mind Control and Children":

I would say this is a Nazi project, but a lot of the Nazis are American-born. It shouldn't be excused or explained away on that basis because as we know, if we look at Nazi psychiatry for example, they learned a lot from the Americans, especially about eugenics. This is not something where we should say, " ... well, the Nazis took over ..." This is home-grown stuff. This is Americana at its worst, at its lowest form. This is also the sub-sub-basement that you walk into when you are a materialist, when that is your philosophy. And I don't mean you are a materialist in the sense that you want money, possessions ... I mean, philosophically. The materialist position is that we are meat, and tissue, and cells, and electrical impulses, and that's it. When that system collapses, we are gone, never to return. My own feeling is that when you espouse and embrace that philosophy, the ultimate, ultimate sub-basement that you end up in is that sub-basement ... that's where you end up. Finally, that's where it all comes out.

Formally stated, Godwin\'s Law, or the Rule of Nazi Analogies, posits that, "as an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." The law was articulated about ten years ago by Mike Godwin, then-legal counsel for the Electronic Frontier Foundation, to counter a proliferation of Nazi analogies online which he regarded as illogical and offensive rhetorical overreach. As popularly understood, the law implies that the first person to invoke the Nazis in a debate loses the argument.

Godwin can be forgiven for believing, in the mid-90s, that Nazi comparisons were overraught. To think the same now must require a massive infusion of Kool Aid from Sidney Gottlieb's punchbowl. But as suggested, much of what we're seeing in America today has antecedents which pre-date Nazi Germany, with a significant homegrown component, that give the appearance of German Naziism but which actually served in part as its inspiration.

It is a project which Franklin Roosevelt frustrated, and the heirs of the project mean to see through now to conclusion. We can see it show its public face in such things as the recent New York Times article "Can Anyone Unseat FDR?" ("Social Security is the soft underbelly of the welfare state," says Stephen Moore, who wants to "jab a spear through it"), and Bush's only seemingly empty jargon of an "ownership society." If the project succeeds, then Nazi Germany, rather than a grotesque aberration of modern history, will be regarded as merely "ahead of its time."

As we trundle on towards this century's astonishing convergence of crises, we should remember there are many powerful people with familiar names who believe the problem is not that there are too few resources; the problem is there are too many people. And what are we going to do about them?

mod I have Minstrel Boy' approval to post in its' entirety

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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Suspected Nazi strikes deal to stay in America

DAYTON, Ohio (AP) - An Ohio man accused of being a Nazi concentration camp guard
during World War II has agreed to give up his American citizenship if the
government drops its case against him, but will be allowed to remain in the

Ildefonsas Bucmys, 84, would become a permanent legal alien under the deal,
which must still be approved by a federal judge.

``For Mr. Bucmys, this settlement is a far better alternative than spending
several more years fighting the United States government in the courts,'' said
Mark Henry, one of Bucmys' attorneys.

Attorneys for Bucmys, a native of Lithuania who came to the United States in
1958, have said he was a guard at the Majdanek concentration camp near Lublin,
Poland, but never harmed prisoners. Bucmys has denied seeing the gas chambers
at Majdanek. He said he deserted in 1943.

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Rush1184 Donating Member (478 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. Did he later go on to join the republican party?

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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. there are others and even more newly created followers

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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #5
43. Thanks for this post.

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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
7. kick

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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Operation PAPERCLIP disclosure kick

:dem: :kick:
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
9. The Clinton Administration prosecuted Nazis.

Here are some links on Nazi war criminals that became "Americans" working in "national security" :grr:

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #9
24. Meanwhile, RW shills like Pat Buchanan cried for the NAZI scum.

And I mean "mean."

Pat Buchanan's Skeleton Closet

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #24
32. Buchanan: "The most prominent defender of accused Nazis in America."

Guess that depends on your definition of "prominent."

Defender of Nazis

Buchanan is the most prominent defender of accused Nazis in America. The most famous case is that of John Demanjuk, who was accused of being an infamous death camp guard named Ivan the Terrible. Buchanan proclaimed his innocence for years, against ample criticism, and felt vindicated when an Israeli court declared there was not enough evidence to convict Demanjuk of being Ivan.

Buchanan continues to declare that Demanjuk has been proved "innocent". Actually, a key piece of evidence (from German documents) that exonerated him as Ivan showed Demanjuk to be a willing guard at Sobibor, another extermination camp where 250,000 died. Even the National Review, while generally defending Demanjuk and Buchanan's support for him, concedes that "Demanjuk was probably guilty of being a lesser accomplice in the Nazi machinery of genocide. That is a fair summary of the Israeli court's findings."

More to the point, Demanjuk is only one of several accused Nazis Buchanan has defended in one way or another. These include Karl Linnas (Buchanan personally appealed to Ed Meese, then Attorney General, to block his deportation to the Soviet Union); Klaus Barbie (Buchanan did not oppose his trial, but argued the US should not have apologized to France for sheltering Barbie after WWII); Arthur Rudolph, a rocket scientist involved in slave labor and severe punishments at a German rocket factory (Buchanan argued his confession was a "lie" while acknowledging he was a "nominal member of the Nazi party and of the SA until 1934"); and Frank Walus (of all the accused, the one most likely innocent.)

One of the most striking examples is Kurt Waldheim, the disgraced former UN leader. Buchanan repeatedly attacked him during his tenure, but once his Nazi past came out, Pat complained that "the ostracism of President Waldheim an aspect of moral bullying and the singular stench of selective indignation." He also rationalized that "like others in Hitler's army, Lt. Waldheim looked the other way."

In each of these cases, Buchanan found a factual reason to defend the accused, an appeal to justice. But put together, it is striking how often he rushes to the defense of accused Nazis. He has also attacked the US Justice Department's Office of Special Investigation (which pursues war criminals) more generally: "You've got a great atrocity that occurred 35, 45 years ago.... Why... put millions of dollars investigating that?"

SOURCE: http://www.realchange.org/buchanan.htm
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-02-05 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
10. The RW of The Republican Party became the political home of these

Nazis and their partisans. Russ Bellant did some excellent research on this fact.

Old Nazi Networks In US
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #10
25. Russ Bellant should be Attorney General.

That would go a long way to straightening things out. Maybe all the way back to 22 November 1963.

What is Fascism?

From: NLG Civil Liberties Committee

Sept. 27, 1992 by Chip Berlet

This article is adapted from the author's preface to Russ Bellant's book "Old Nazis, the New Right, and the Republican Party," co-published by South End Press and Political Research Associates.


Technically, the word NAZI was the acronym for the National Socialist German Worker's Party. It was a fascist movement that had its roots in the European nationalist and socialist movements, and that developed a grotesque biologically-determinant view of so-called "Aryan" supremacy. (Here we use "national socialism" to refer to the early Nazi movement before Hitler came to power, sometimes termed the "Brownshirt" phase, and the term "Nazi" to refer to the movement after it had consolidated around ideological fascism.)

The seeds of fascism, however, were planted in Italy. "Fascism is reaction," said Mussolini, but reaction to what? The reactionary movement following World War I was based on a rejection of the social theories that formed the basis of the 1789 French Revolution, and whose early formulations in this country had a major influence on our Declaration of Independence, Constitution, and Bill of Rights.

It was Rousseau who is best known for crystallizing these modern social theories in . The progeny of these theories are sometimes called Modernism or Modernity because they challenged social theories generally accepted since the days of Machiavelli. The response to the French Revolution and Rousseau, by Hegel, Marx, Nietzsche, and others, poured into an intellectual stew which served up Marxism, socialism, national socialism, fascism, modern liberalism, modern conservatism, communism, and a variety of forms of capitalist participatory democracy.

Fascists particularly loathed the social theories of the French Revolution and its slogan: "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity."

*** Liberty from oppressive government intervention in the daily lives of its citizens, from illicit searches and seizures, from enforced religious values, from intimidation and arrest for dissenters; and liberty to cast a vote in a system in which the majority ruled but the minority retained certain inalienable rights.

*** Equality in the sense of civic equality, egalitarianism, the notion that while people differ, they all should stand equal in the eyes of the law.

*** Fraternity in the sense of the brotherhood of mankind. That all women and men, the old and the young, the infirm and the healthy, the rich and the poor, share a spark of humanity that must be cherished on a level above that of the law, and that binds us all together in a manner that continuously re-affirms and celebrates life.



Gee. No wonder today's GOP loves the NAZIs.

"Liberty. Equality. Brotherhood."

That sounds like the definition of "Democrat" to me.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. When Hitler met Dietrich Eckart.

Edited on Thu Feb-03-05 11:22 PM by seemslikeadream

Hitler wanted to turn the German Workers Party into a mass-conscious fighting party, but Harrer and Drexler were hesitant, due in part to their woeful financial situation. The Thule Society was not yet supplying very much money and no one seemed to know how to build up a mass party. Hitler arranged two public meetings in obscure beer halls, and he drafted leaflets and posters, but there was no real breakthrough.

All of this changed dramatically at the end of the 1919 when Hitler met Dietrich Eckart. Most biographers have underestimated the influence that Eckart exerted on Hitler. He was the wealthy publisher and editor-in-chief of an anti-semitic journal which he called In Plain German. Eckart was also a committed occultist and a master of magic. As an initiate, Eckart belonged to the inner circle of the Thule Society as well as other esoteric orders.

Briefly, the creed of the Thule Society inner circle is as follows: Thule was a legendary island in the far north, similar to Atlantis, supposedly the center of a lost, high-level civilization. But not all secrets of that civilization had been completely wiped out. Those that remained were being guarded by ancient, highly intelligent beings (similar to the "Masters" of Theosophy or the White Brotherhood). The truly initiated could establish contact with these beings by means of magic-mystical rituals. The "Masters" or "Ancients" allegedly would be able to endow the initiated with supernatural strength and energy. With the help of these energies the goal of the initiated was to create a race of Supermen of "Aryan" stock who would exterminate all "inferior" races.

There can be no doubt that Eckart - who had been alerted to Hitler by other Thulists - trained Hitler in techniques of self confidence, self projection, persuasive oratory, body language and discursive sophistry. With these tools, in a short period of time he was able to move the obscure workers party from the club and beer hall atmosphere to a mass movement. The emotion charged lay speaker became an expert orator, capable of mesmerizing a vast audience.

One should not underestimate occultism's influence on Hitler. His subsequent rejection of Free Masons and esoteric movements, of Theosophy, of Anthrosophy, does not necessarily mean otherwise. Occult circles have long been known as covers for espionage and influence peddling. Hitler's spy apparatus under Canaris and Heydrich were well aware of these conduits, particularly from the direction of Britain which had within its MI5 intelligence agency a department known as the Occult Bureau. That these potential sources of trouble were purged from Nazi life should not be taken to mean that Hitler and the Nazi secret societies were not influenced by mystical and occult writers such as Madame Blavatsky, Houston Stewart Chamberlain, Guido Von List, Lanz Von Liebenfels, Rudolf Steiner, George Gurdjieff, Karl Haushofer and Theodor Fritsch. Although Hitler later denounced and ridiculed many of them, he did dedicate his book Mein Kampf to his teacher Dietrich Eckart.

In 1923, on his deathbed, Hitler's mentor Dietrich Eckart, a dedicated Satanist and central figure in the Occult Thule Society and a founder member of the Nazi party, said:

'Follow Hitler ! He will dance, but it is I who have called the tune !'
'I have initiated him into the 'Secret Doctrine', opened his centres in vision and given him the means to communicate with the Powers.'

'Do not mourn for me: I shall have influenced history more than any other German.'


Nazi Interest in Parapsychology and the Paranormal
There was widespread interest by the Nazis in various paranormal topics. Albert Speer was clearly very interested in geomancy and the ley lines and sacred spots of Germany, and some of his architecture betrays knowledge of principles of mystical geometry and numerology. The Vril Society in Germany promoted the idea that there might be a mystical energy within the earth that could be tapped by the German people, although Bulwer-Lytton had maintained it was the property of a race living inside the earth. It is well known that Hitler consulted astrologers for propitious dates for his military campaigns and employed dowsers on the battlefield to search for water and for minefields. There was also some interest by the Nazi cadres in parapsychology as an espionage device - research that appears to be carried along by the intelligence apparati of the two victorious Allied powers (our CIA and the Soviet KGB.) Further, the Nazis were interested in antigravity and 'free energy' devices. Viktor Shauberger, a Nazi scientist, worked on a saucer design for one of his 'antigravity' ships16. For a long time, it was believed that the 'foo fighters' and 'ghost rockets' of the 1940s were a secret Nazi weapon, and there was a small minority that thought the Nazis may have created the 'flying saucers,' though the ETH-UFO hypothesis caught on soon after, by 1949.
But what captivated Hitler's interest most of all was his interest in hypnosis or the occult powers of 'fascination.' Witnesses of the Nuremberg rallies claim that people there were in a trancelike state, glassy-eyed and open mouthed with awe. Hitler claimed to have studied the mystical charismatic powers of earlier leaders, and read a great deal about the Jesuits' psychological techniques of focused concentration and devotion. It is certain that Hitler's minister Goebbels did employ carefully crafted techniques of social control - lighting, the tenor of the voice, and crowd psychology - for maximum propaganda value. But Trevor Rayvenscroft and others are of the opinion that the Nazis may have been more than just master propagandists; they may have been true sorcerous mesmerists, possessing the minds of thousands of people. Some people maintain the CIA's MKUltra mind-control experiments may have been derived from Nazi researchers smuggled into this country through Project Paperclip17.

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #27
35. So, how's that fit in with the Bush Family Evil Empire?


Let us begin with a quick overview of the German Thule Society, beginning with a study of its practices and relevant history. Members were Satanists who practiced Black Magick -- this means that they were "solely concerned with raising their consciousness by means of rituals to awareness of evil and nonhuman intelligences in the universe; and with achieving means of communication with these intelligences." (Ravenscroft, Spear of Destiny, p. 161). Concentrate on that seemingly innocent word, rituals. Christians equate a ritual to a church service, thereby not understanding its occultic meaning. The New Age Dictionary defines ritual as a "ceremony to restore balance with nature...and bring back lost harmony and sacredness." Remember we are dealing with the Satanic world, where good is called evil and evil is called good. The sacredness mentioned here is a Satanic sacredness. Rituals literally are proscribed activities designed to allow demonic power to flow through the participants. These activities are proscribed chants, formula wordings, and carefully planned actions. The effect is devastatingly powerful, as demonic force pours through the participants, delivering a counterfeit spiritual experience which literally transforms their lives. Never skip over the word ritual, as it is a word of Satanic power.

Thule members practiced a form of Sexual Magic derived from a lodge of which Aleister Crowley was a member. Crowley was recognized as the foremost worshipper of Satan in the 19th Century. "The origin of this...medieval magic...can be traced to a Freemason, Robert Little, who founded the Societas Rosicruciana in 1865... (Ravenscroft, Spear of Destiny, p. 164-5). While the actual sexual perversions which were practiced are too offensive to share, the results are not. Author Revenscroft stated that "indulgence in the most sadistic rituals awakened penetrating vision into the workings of Evil Intelligences and bestowed phenomenal magical powers." (Ibid. p. 167). This is the Thule Society.

Ravenscroft records its effect upon Hitler, "...sexual perversion took a central place in life...a monstrous sexual perversion was the very core of his whole existence, the source of his mediumistic and clairvoyant powers, and the motivation behind every act through which he reaped a sadistic vengeance on humanity." (Ibid., p. 171).

Eckart's final act was to initiate Hitler into "a monstrous sadistic magic ritual...after which he was sexually impotent. Hitler's impotency had a deep psychological foundation. He knew sexual fulfillment through the extremes of sadism and masochism..."(Ravenscroft, p. 155, 173). This impotency delivered a final devastating blow to Hitler's psychological foundation, finally making him into the sadistic murderer that history knows.



So, remember when Bush told the Canadian PM's "Scott" he has a "pretty face"? Eeeeeuw!

Bush Tells Canadian Prime Minister's Scott that He has a Prettier Face Than Bush's Scott: We Are Not Making This Up!

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. I guess bush has found a new pretty face!

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. Bush prefers Canada's "pretty boy" to his "pretty boy."

I couldn't make this up if I tried: Bush TELLS men they are attractive.

Here's a reprint of the original, from the Toronto Globe and Mail:

Bush prefers our pretty boy to his pretty boy

by Jane Taber
Toronto Globe and Mail

This is the tale of the two Scotts -- one American, the other Canadian. One is dark-haired, the other blond. Both are 35 and both work for the most powerful men in their respective countries.


"Well, what do you do for this guy?" the President asked as he pointed to the Prime Minister.

"Well, you know, sir, I can't really say," Mr. Reid said. "It's not that I don't want to. It's just that, you know, I don't really know from day to day."

This is true. Mr. Reid handles a number of files and performs a number of different duties, depending on the issue and the day.

The President chuckled. "Well, you got a pretty face," he told the surprised Mr. Reid. He wasn't done. "You got a pretty face," he said again. "You're a good-looking guy. Better looking than my Scott anyway."


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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #39
46. Pretty boys - like father like son


George Bush was less than pleased with the media coverage of the prostitution charges and kept abreast of the scandal as it mushroomed. The Washington Times reported in an article titled ``White House Mute on Call Boy Scandal,'' that ``White House sources confirmed that President Bush has followed the story of the late night visit and Mr. Spence's links to a homosexual prostitution ring under investigation by federal authorities since they were disclosed June 29 in the Washington Times. But top officials will not discuss the story's substance, reportedly even among themselves.

``Press officers have rebuffed repeated requests to obtain Mr. Bush's reaction and decline to discuss investigations or fall out from the disclosures.''@s2 By midsummer, the scandal had been buried. The President had managed to avoid giving a single press conference where he would surely have been asked to comment.

As the call boy ring affair dominated the cocktail gossip circuit in Washington, another scandal, halfway across the country in the state of Nebraska, peaked. Again this scandal knocked on the President's door.

A black Republican who had been a leader in organizing minority support for the President's 1988 campaign and who proudly displayed a photo of himself and the President, arm in arm, in his Omaha home, was at the center of a sex and money scandal that continues to rock the Cornhusker state.

The scandal originated with the collapse of the minority-oriented Franklin Community Credit Union in Omaha, directed by Lawrence E. King, Jr., a nationally influential black Republican who sang the national anthem at both the 1984 and 1988 Republican conventions. King became the subject of the Nebraska Senate's investigation conducted by the specially created ``Franklin Committee'' to probe charges of embezzlement. In November 1988, King's offices were raided by the FBI and $40 million was discovered missing. Within weeks, the Nebraska Senate, which initially opened the inquiry to find out where the money had gone, instead found itself questioning young adults and teenagers who said that they had been child prostitutes. Social workers and state child-care administrators accused King of running a child prostitution ring. The charges grew with the former police chief of Omaha, the publisher of the state's largest daily newspaper, and several other political associates of King, finding themselves accused of patronizing the child prostitution ring.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
21. Not the Gelli. The BUSHes.

They're not called the Bush Family Evil Empire for nothing.

Nazis in the attic, part 6

By Randy Davis


...Like Nixon, George Bush was deeply involved with supporting the Nazis in the Republican's closet. In fact, support for the Nazis was a Bush family tradition which goes back more than six decades and, once again, to Allen Dulles.

Loftus and Aarons write: "The real story of George Bush starts well before he launched his own career. It goes back to the 1920s, when the Dulles brothers and the other pirates of Wall Street were making their deals with the Nazis. . . ."


"George Bush's problems were inherited from his namesake and maternal grandfather, George Herbert 'Bert' Walker, a native of St. Louis, who founded the banking and investment firm of G. H. Walker and Company in 1900. Later the company shifted from St. Louis to the prestigious address of 1 Wall Street. . . .

"Walker was one of Hitler's most powerful financial supporters in the United States. The relationship went all the way back to 1924, when Fritz Thyssen, the German industrialist, was financing Hitler's infant Nazi party. As mentioned in earlier chapters, there were American contributors as well.


"In 1926 Bert Walker did a favor for his new son-in-law, Prescott Bush. It was the sort of favor families do to help their children make a start in life, but Prescott came to regret it bitterly. Walker made Prescott vice president of W. A. Harriman. The problem was that Walker's specialty was companies that traded with Germany. As Thyssen and the other German industrialists consolidated Hitler's political power in the 1930s, an American financial connection was needed. According to our sources, Union Banking became an out-and-out Nazi money-laundering machine. .


". . . In a November 1935 article in Common Sense, retired marine general Smedley D. Butler blamed Brown Brothers, Harriman for having the U.S. marines act like 'racketeers' and 'gangsters' in order to exploit financially the peasants of Nicaragua. . . .




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Pallas180 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. MSNBC is showing and reshowing history of Bush family - not one word

about Prescott Bush's shame and connection to financing the Nazis.

I've thought of writing them - and asking for a correction....

Interesting, the Nazi past and the Bush remaining strong ties to the Texas Farishes( named ambassador to England by the current ush bastard) who the Congress pillaried for their financial support of
Hitler and threat to cut off oil to the US made to FDR, is never mentioned anywhere in the media.

And of course the Jews and the Jewish organizations who thin kJr. Bush is in their hip pocket conveniently never mention it either, or Baker the III's "f-ck the Jews, they never vote for us anyway" comment when pappy was running for President.

The media whores and organizational whores need to be reminded strongly and often of the ush family background and connections.
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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Lot's and lot's of skeletons here?

Many people do not want made public some of their Grandparents connections and sources of family fortunes. Like other criminal organizations they have tried to make themselves respectable, but the smell is the same whether your ancestors wore Brown Shirt or today you celebrate Lincoln Day. The right wing racist are just a parody of the past.

I am well aware of what existed in Eastern Missouri in the 1920's and 1930's The Bundt was real, and their descendants are still around. Some moved South and found high office.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #28
33. IMFO, this is what the VRWC and the BFEE fear most.

This is what we knew a few years back. Since then, the picture has gotten clearer, but not prettier.

the bush nazi coke moonie connection

by Nick Mamatas (nillo@agoron.com ) - July 28, 2002

In April 1999, Texas Governor George W. Bush proclaimed a week of remembrance for the Holocaust. He said, "I urge Texans to never forget the inhumanity of those who perpetrated the Holocaust, and reflect upon our own humanity and our responsibility to respect all peoples." Good advice. He should reflect upon his own family, if he is interested in reflecting on inhumanity.

G.W.'s grandfather and great-grandfather, Prescott Bush and George Herbert Walker, were among the chief American fundraisers for Germany's Nazi Party. Through industrialist Fritz Thyssen, the Bush-run Union Banking Company and W. A. Harriman & Company, the Bushes sold over $50 million in German bonds to American investors, starting in 1924. Thyssen in turn pumped money into the infant Nazi Party, which had proved its desire to rule and its willingness to use brute force in 1923's Munich Beer Hall Putsch.

George Walker, GW's great-grandfather, also set up the takeover of the Hamburg-America Line, a cover for I.G. Farben's Nazi espionage unit in the United States. In Germany, I.G. Farben was most famous for putting the gas in gas chambers; it was the producer of Zyklon B and other gasses used on victims of the Holocaust. The Bush family was not unaware of the nature of their investment partners. They hired Allen Dulles, the future head of the CIA, to hide the funds they were making from Nazi investments and the funds they were sending to Nazi Germany, rather than divest. It was only in 1942, when the government seized Union Banking Company assets under the Trading With The Enemy Act, that George Walker and Prescott Bush stopped pumping money into Hitler's regime.

George Bush, then an eighteen year-old man, held off entering Yale (a long-time Bush family destination, Prescott had graduated in 1917) to enter the military, perhaps to remove some of the tarnish from his family's honor. After the war, however, Bush joined the intelligence community and utilized his own connections to help fund drug runners from Laos to Panama. Most shocking was the so-called "cocaine coup" in Bolivia in June 1980, masterminded by fugitive Nazi Klaus Barbie, "The Butcher Of Lyons." Bush, as director of the CIA, had funneled enormous amounts of cash to drug runners including Manuel Noriega and helped in the destabilization of Argentina. Barbie, who had been previously secreted in Latin America by the CIA, began working closely with the Argentines and used drug money to finance a neo-Nazi cabal, one that succeeded in overthrowing the government. The troops swept through the capital wearing Nazi armbands, according to former DEA agent Mike Levine. They may as well have been wearing armbands portraying syringes, dollar bills and "Bush For President" buttons.

After the cocaine coup, the notorious Unification Church, the "Moonie" cult, began making inroads across Latin America. Among the first to arrive in La Paz after the Nazi/coke coup was Bo Hi Pak, Rev. Sun Myung Moon's right hand man. Moon had invested $4 million in the coup, it so turns out, and still had plenty of money left over to help finance George Bush's campaign for president in 1988. Moonie lieutenant Thomas Ward also acted as the go-between between Barbie and his CIA payrollers. The Moonies were also large funders of the Contras and heavy investors in Latin America generally. Bush is still in Moon's pocket: as recently as 1996, former President Bush flew to Argentina to appeal to Argentine president Carlos Menem to attend the gala celebration for Moon's latest right-wing newspaper. Bush has made hundreds of thousands of dollars stumping for Moon groups since leaving the Oval Office, and has been working to make sure GW Bush gets his share of drug-tainted, Nazi managed cult money for the latest Presidential campaign


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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. This is why I had such a bad reaction to Joementum's kiss at SOTU.

Did he know who or what he was kissing?

I am of German American descent. My Grandfather and his family chose a different path, they were in the oil business in the 1920's. At one time they could have joined these scum. My Grandfather converted and became a Roosevelt Democrat. Some family members who he supported during the depression turned on my Grandfather with insults as my Uncle (one of the highest decorated in MO during WWII) served with the 8th Army Air Force.

Old history does matter.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. Hey, Gordo!

Wie geht's, Freund gordianot?

Thank you for sharing your story. We owe our freedom today to your dad and the men and women who fought these fascist bastards. That's why we must fight today -- so their sacrifices are not in vain.

Many members of my wife's family, too, are from Germany. They moved to Texas in the late 1800s and settled in a town where German was spoken by most everyone. During WW II, my father-in-law served in the 8th AF as a navigator aboard a B-17. He flew missions against his family's hometown.

Unlike your family, my wife's dad is Republican as all hell. Yet, he's a good puke, working to save the jobs of people in his old company, etc. And many of his cousins are good Democrats.

What draws us together with our ancestors? The short answer: Love and Truth.

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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. Sounds like we have much in common.

Edited on Fri Feb-04-05 10:07 AM by gordianot
Grandpa counted Harry Truman and Clarence Cannon as friends during the 1920's and 1930's. He also knew Charles Lindburg very well before he became famous (gives you some idea of old family connections) an aunt was married to Grandpa's cousin. My Uncle flew to Great Britain on a plane piloted by Lindburg. By that time Lindy had a change of heart. My Uncle got his first DFC with Jimmy Stewart.

Yes, those Nazi slugs were/are here in MO. Never ever forget, my children know the truth.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-05 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #26
51. Bet they aren't mentioning this "hottie," either

Jennifer Fitzgerald, who served under GHW Bush "in a variety of positions." Oh, you kid!
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
22. BBC headline is misleading

Edited on Thu Feb-03-05 09:57 PM by paineinthearse
To me, "CIA urged to release Nazi records" means someone is urging the CIA to release records created by nazis, when what is meant is someone is urging the CIA to release its records about nazis who were complicitous with the OSS and military intelligence.

Quite a difference.
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aikido15 Donating Member (637 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
23. Hope they get the documents but...

this is old news. It's well known that our government harbored war criminals, scientists so they could learn how to develop methods of torture. Maybe the documents will hold someone accountable, but I doubt it.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
30. Kick.

:dem: :kick:
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BigMcLargehuge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
42. Probably had deals like this guy did -

Ishii Shiro, leader of the Bacteriological Warfare Division of the Imperial Japanese Army. Personally oversaw the set up. administration, and operation of several Bio Warfare facilities in Manchuria and China from 1937 until the end of World War 2 in the pacific theater. He exploited cholera, bubonic plague, Chinese hemhoragic fever, typhus, and a host of other diseases to create deliverable biological weapons.

His unit, Unit 731 (and satellite units like 1644 in Nanking) are responsible for the murder of tens of thousands of Chinese, Russian, and even British and American prisoners in the Harbin China facility. He tested bubonic plague on the port city of Ningbo. He wrote up plans to suicide bomb the west coast of the US with the same pathogens.

Some put the figure of those killed directly and indirectly by Ishii's unit at over 25 million people between 1937 and the middle 1950s. At the end of WW2 he was courted by the US and eventually moved to Fort Detrick, Maryland, to continue his pathogen work, exempt from prosecution and protected from a certain death sentence at the Japanese War Crimes trials.

It is suggested by many that he was present during certain battles of the Korean War and that a strange outbreak of hemhoragic fever north of the Yalu river is directly attributed to his work.

Nice friends we got, huh?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #42
47. These are the guys whose "research" the OSS/CIA grabbed...

... in exchange for letting them go free. It's a wonder people wonder why there are so many NAZI/Fascist/Imperialist bastards in government.


And Other Atrocities You Won't Read About In Your History Books



The atrocities continued throughout the war, but were mild, in many ways, compared to what went on at Unit 731, located at Pingfan, Manchuria, just outside the city of Harbin. The Japanese called this place the Epidemic Prevention and Water Supply Unit of the Kwantung Army. We called it what it was -- a Death Camp.

Unit 731 had a compound of 150 buildings. A part of this compound, Ro Block, was reserved for experiments on live human prisoners. Prisoners would be brought in and used as guinea pigs: men, women, and children -- Asians and Caucasians. They were called "maruta", meaning "logs of wood".

Some prisoners were purposely infected with disease: cholera, typhoid, anthrax, plague, syphilis. Others were cut up while they were still alive to see what happened in the successive stages of hemorragic fever. Others had their blood siphoned off and replaced with horse blood. Many others were shot, burned with flame-throwers, blown up with explosives and left to develop gas gangrene, bombarded with lethal doses of X-rays, whirled to death in giant centrifuges, subjected to high pressure in sealed chambers until their eyes popped out of their sockets, electrocuted, dehydrated, frozen, and even boiled alive.

Two prisoners were put on a diet of water and biscuits and then worked nonstop, circling the compound loaded with twenty-kilogram sandbags on their backs until they dropped dead. One lasted longer than the other -- about two months. This was supposed to be research into malnutrition, like the Minnesota experiment -- but, done the Japanese Army way, it was to the death.

Of all the thousands of POW's taken to Unit 731, not a single prisoner survived. To the last man they were slaughtered. It is also a fact that Japan had plans to slaughter the entire prisoner population if and when we invaded their homeland



My grandfather's cousin was an Army colonel on Gen. MacArthur's staff. He was taken prisoner when Corregidor fell. The guy survived the Bataan Death March and was eventually moved to Honshu. He succumbed to illness in 1945, just months before the end of the war. He might've made it, with proper nutrition and medical treatment.
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
44. UPDATE: Congress, CIA in Dispute Over Nazi Files

VOA News
Congress, CIA in Dispute Over Nazi Files By Gary Thomas
03 February 2005

The Central Intelligence Agency is coming under Congressional pressure for refusing to release thousands of documents on Nazi war criminals to a government historical research group. Historians believe the documents may contain embarrassing disclosures about postwar working relationships between U.S. intelligence operatives and former Nazis.

Senator Mike DeWine, a Republican from Ohio, says the CIA is in defiance of a 1998 law that orders the release of classified files on Nazi war criminals, and that he will call CIA Director Porter Goss to a hearing of the Senate Judiciary Committee, if the dispute cannot be settled.

The law, co-authored by Mr. DeWine, requires federal agencies to turn over all files on alleged Nazis to a special inter-agency historical working group.

The CIA has turned over more than one million pages of documents, most of them relating to its World War II predecessor agency, the Office of Strategic Services. But Congressional officials say it is withholding thousands more pages.

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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. wonder WHO appoints the special 'working' group??

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-05 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #45
50. Three guesses.

Three traitors.
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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-05 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. Ward Churchill's keyword='Eichmann,' CIA doc. release 2/5= same. Bingo.

When Ward Churchill got death threats and the wrath of O'Reilly for saying the WTC victims of 9/11 were working like "little Eichmanns" some of us knew it was a media diversion; Someone knew that the keyword was 'Eichmann' in the just released CIA documents that the Israei newspaper Haaretz cited on 2/5/05:

>snip< http://test.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/536364.html By Yossi Melman, Haaretz Correspondent Five of Adolph Eichmann's Nazi assistants were recruited and employed by the Central Intelligence Agency after World War II, according to recently declassified intelligence documents. The information came to light after a lengthy battle waged by the non-profit group, The National Security Archive, whosegoal is to expose government documents under the framework of the Freedom of Information Act. The newly-revealed documents are based on internal investigations in the CIA's history department. The agency has steadfastly refused to make the documents public for fear they would cause embarassment. The revelations cast a negative light not only on American intelligence activity but also the U.S.Army's conduct in Germany at the conclusion of the war. The military made efforts to recruit members of the SS and the Gestapo into its ranks despite simultaenously waging a campaign of de-Nazification over vanquished Germany, a process which included arresting and trying Nazi war criminals. The documents also reveal in great detail CIA efforts to recruit Reinhard Gehlen, who was the Wermacht's chief intelligence officer for the eastern front during the war. The recruitment evolved into a new intelligence sub-organization known as "Gehlen's Organization," which served as the basis for what would later become West Germany's foreign intelligence service, the Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND). According to the new findings, Gehlen's Organization employed a number of Gestapo and SS officials. Gehlen and his senior associates secretly operated out of a building with the knowledge of the American occupation forces. >snip<

(Ah ha. So now I now what 'Godwin's Law' is and why many counsel me no to post on the subject of US-Nazi ties. I remain convinced the topic is the only icepick into TV Nation's bubble of propaganda which prevents any ability to figure out the world around them.)
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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-05 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
53. There couldn't be any references to Prescott or his bank in these records?

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-05 08:51 PM
Response to Original message


One philosophical fellow traveler of Vereide was the German Nazi philosopher Martin Heidegger, a colleague of Leo Strauss, the father of American neo-conservatism and the mentor of such present-day American neo-conservatives as Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz. Strauss’s close association with Heidegger and the Nazi idea of telling the big lie in order to justify the end goals – Machiavellianism on steroids -- did not help Strauss in Nazi Germany. Because he was Jewish, he was forced to emigrate to the United States, where he eventually began teaching neo-conservative political science at the University of Chicago. It is this confluence of right-wing philosophies that provides a political bridge between modern-day Christian Rightists (including so-called Christian Zionists) and the secular-oriented neo-conservatives who support a policy that sees a U.S.-Israeli alliance against Islam and European-oriented democratic socialism. For the dominion theologists, the United States is the new Israel, with a God-given mandate to establish dominion over the entire planet. Neither the secular neo-conservatives nor Christian fundamentalists seem to have a problem with the idea of American domination of the planet, as witnessed by the presence of representatives of both camps as supporters of the neo-conservative Project for a New American Century, the neo-conservative blueprint for America’s attack on Iraq and plans to attack, occupy, and dominate other countries that oppose U.S. designs.

What bound all so-called “America First” movements prior to World War II was their common hatred for labor unions, Communists and Socialists, Jews, and most definitely, the administration of President Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Vereide’s Prayer Breakfast Movement, pro-Nazi German groups like the Bund, and a resurgent Ku Klux Klan had more than propaganda in common – they had an interlocking leadership and a coordinated political agenda.

Not only was Vereide pro-Hitler, he was the only Norwegian of note, who was not officially a Nazi, who never condemned Norwegian Nazi leader Vidkun Quisling, a man whose name has become synonymous with traitor and who was executed in 1945. Vereide and Quisling were almost the same age, Vereide was born in 1886, Quisling in 1887. They both shared a link with the clergy, Vereide was a Methodist minister and Quisling was the son of a Lutheran minister. The Norwegian link to the Fellowship continues to this day but more on that later.

Another pro-Nazi Christian fundamentalist group that arose in the pre-Second World War years was the Moral Rearmament Movement. Its leader was Frank Buchman, a Lutheran minister from Philadelphia. Buchman was a pacifist, but not just any pacifist. He and his colleagues in the United States, Britain, Norway, and South Africa reasoned that war could be avoided if the world would just accept the rise of Hitler and National Socialism and concentrate on stamping out Communism and Socialism. Buchman coordinated his activities with Vereide and his Prayer Breakfast Movement, which, by 1940, had spread its anti-left manifesto and agenda throughout the Pacific Northwest.

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #55
57. Grand Unified Conspiracy Theory

Wow! Masden's filed the Rosetta Stone of the Establishment. Even if it's 54-pates, it's a must-read mother lode.

Expose: The "Christian" Mafia


The trip to off-shore banking havens by the Fellowship delegation is of note. These were the same islands noted by former U.S. intelligence operatives as the location of billion dollar money tranches and corporate artifices used by the Bush family to engage in various illegal activities, including drug money laundering, corporate fraud, and funding the fixing of elections. The Fellowship not only had an interest in Caribbean off-shore banking havens butmade special invitations to Cook Islands Prime Minister Geoffrey Henry and Fiji Prime Minister Sir Ratu Kamisese Mara. Both island nations are off-shore banking havens and the Cook Islands featured prominently in the transfer of money and gold looted from the Philippines and placed in Bush-controlled secret accounts following Marcos’s overthrow in the 1980s. Henry and Mara were guests at the National Prayer Breakfast in 1991 where George H. W. Bush was also present.

In 1987, Coe was in Mongolia, officially as a tourist (Mongolia was still Communist). However, shortly after Communism fell, the Fellowship and the Moon organization set up shop in the largely Buddhist country. Fellowship missionaries fanned out across to other Buddhist regions that had been close for years to outsiders: the Russian Buddhist Republics of Tuva, Kalmykia, Buryatia, and Evenkia. The Fellowship called them “unreached peoples.” Similarly, after the recent tsunamis that killed over a quarter million people in South and Southeast Asia, fundamentalist Christian aid workers arrived with more than relief in mind. Local officials in Sri Lanka and Indonesia complained about the relief workers using the disaster to proselytize and adopt orphans into Christian homes. The people of the worst affected area, Aceh in Sumatra, were also referred to as “unreached people,” meaning they had not yet been subject to conversion outreach.

The Fellowship also had a keen interest in intelligence matters, especially when they involved Fellowship members. For example, one of the tape reels held by the Fellowship at the Billy Graham Center concerns the use by the CIA of journalists as informants. The tape is described: “Reel-to-reel, 7 ½ ips. 1 side only. January 23, 1976. Radio program Panorama, broadcast on station WTTG in Washington, DC, hosted by Maury Povich, with commentator Ms. Bonnie Angelo. The guest on the show is correspondent and informant for the Central Intelligence Agency and the Federal Bureau of Investigation. The conversation is about contacts between U.S. intelligence agencies and journalists. Chuck Colson is referred to very briefly during the interview, in reference to knowledge of a list in the Nixon White House of journalists who were intelligence informants.”

The Fellowship’s influence in Vereide’s native country of Norway was revealed in late 2004 when the Norwegian newspaper Dagbladet exposed Norway’s Lutheran minister and Christian Democratic Prime Minister Kjell Magne Bondevik as a secret member of the Fellowship. Although Bondevik at first downplayed his role in the Fellowship, Bondevik later was forced to admit that in December 2001 he met at a dinner at the Cedars with then-Attorney General Ashcroft and that the meeting involved his official role as Prime Minister. Apparently, Bondevik and Ashcroft discussed the U.S. military tribunals. Ashcroft referred to Bondevik as his “brother in Christ” and he serenaded Bondevik Norwegian folk songs after dinner. Bondevik had previously argued that his involvement with the Fellowship was a personal matter. In addition, it was revealed that Norway’s ambassador to the United States, Knut Vollebuk, was a frequent visitor to the Cedars as were a number of members of Norway’s Christian Democratic Party. As the scandal deepened, Coe’s involvement in Norwegian politics came to the fore. Torkel Brekke, a Norwegian religious researcher, revealed in his book Gud i norsk politkk (God in Norwegian Politics) that Coe provided advice and money to Christian Democrat politician Lars Rise. During a campaign in 1997, Coe told Rise to target voters in the heavily Muslim eastern part of Oslo. Coe emphasized that Christians and Muslims shared common views on the evils of pornography, alcohol, abortion, and same sex marriages. For Rise, the strategy was successful although a subsequent election saw him dropped as a Christian Democratic candidate. The Coe-Rise affair points to the alliance the Fellowship has formed over the years with Muslims, particularly more radical Islamists. For example, in 1988, the first Muslim, Saudi Prince Bandar, spoke at the National Prayer Breakfast.

Norway’s opposition political leaders, from the right to the left, demanded an explanation from Bondevik about the role of the Fellowship in Norwegian politics. Socialist Left leader Kristin Halvorsen told the Oslo daily Aftenposten, “seen with Norwegian eyes, this is a reactionary association.” The Labor Party and right-wing Progress Party also raised concerns about Bondevik and the Fellowship. For many Norwegians, Bondevik was tied with George W. Bush through a secret and right-wing fundamentalist group.


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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-05 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
56. 150 Prominent Americans Urge CIA to Release Documents on Nazi War Criminal

150 Prominent Americans Urge CIA to Release Documents on Nazi War Criminals

10 minutes ago

To: National Desk

Contact: David S. Wyman Institute for Holocaust Studies, 215-635-5622, rafaelmedoff@aol.com

PHILADELPHIA, Feb. 6 /U.S. Newswire/ -- More than 150 prominent Americans have sent a bipartisan, ecumenical letter to Central Intelligence Agency (news - web sites) director Porter J. Goss, protesting the CIA (news - web sites)'s refusal to release documents pertaining to U.S. relations with Nazi war criminals.

The letter of protest was sent on February 6, 2005, and was organized by The David S. Wyman Institute for Holocaust Studies. It expressed "surprise and disappointment" that the CIA has failed to fully comply with the Nazi War Crimes Disclosure Act of 1998, which requires that all U.S. records on Nazi war criminals be "made available to the public."

U.S. Senator Mike DeWine (R-Ohio) and U.S. Rep. Carolyn Maloney (news, bio, voting record) (D-NY), the sponsors of the 1998 law, recently criticized the CIA for its failure to release hundreds of thousands of pages of documents.

Some of the documents pertain to the CIA's post-World War II policy of secretly hiring Nazi war criminals for various Cold War purposes.

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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
58. UPDATE:CIA agrees to release records detailing ties to former Nazis

CIA agrees to release records detailing ties to former Nazis
Douglas Jehl, New York Times

Monday, February 7, 2005

Washington -- Under pressure from Congress, the Central Intelligence Agency has formally agreed to a broad new interpretation of a 1998 law that requires disclosure of classified records related to Nazi war criminals, a CIA document shows.

Sen. Mike DeWine, R-Ohio, praised the action Sunday as a "major breakthrough" in a dispute that had been waged in private for more than two years. Last week, DeWine presided over what he called "a very blunt meeting" on the subject with CIA officials, and he had threatened to summon Porter Goss, the director of central intelligence, to testify in public on the matter.

The document was sent as an e-mail message late Friday to members of a government working group charged with reviewing the records. In the message, the CIA reversed a legal stance in which it had argued that the law required disclosure of records related only to war crimes, not to war criminals, and did not apply to information about the agency's postwar dealings with former Nazis. The message was made available to the New York Times by a person involved in the discussions who wanted the information made public.

In the message, the CIA explicitly pledged for the first time to "acknowledge any relationship" between the CIA and SS members, regardless of whether there was any information specifically tying them to war crimes. The message said the CIA had also agreed that documents "concerning acts performed by Nazi war criminals, to include members of the SS, on behalf of CIA" are relevant and are subject to disclosure under the law.

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